Doom II Easter Egg - Die with a Vengeance

You're insane. No one "stole" anything from each other.

"stole" was a joke!!!

Die commander keen die (*bang*)! he he (joke) like really, i think it was a joke for all those old gamers who played commander keen.

Apogee and ID always dissed on each other, however I fail to see the easter egg? anybody can see the commander

Excuse me, but id ***MADE*** Commander Keen, and did a very good job at it, I daresay!

Also, you may recognize this level from the final level of the last episode of Wolfenstein 3d

I meant last level of first episode

I think, ID and Apogee are the same programmers. Apogee is just an older name.

Several people here seem to have got it a bit wrong. Apogee, as well as being a software house in their own right, were also iD's early distributors, until iD got big enough (thanks to Doom) not to need them. But iD and Apogee are different people. Also, from what I've heard, the parting was amicable and the two lots of people are good friends to this day. Apogee still have the distribution rights to the early games, and any "dissing" of the others is of a friendly nature, such as the Doomed Space Marine in Duke Nukem 3D...

This is correct, Apogee and ID have always made "fun" of each other in one way or another. They also share a cult easter egg apperance...the Dopefish. =)

What a rumble about such a dumb word like "stole"...damn...i surely didn't mean, that apogee stole commander keen from id...i just meant, that the apogee-guys and id had a little quarrel...remember, that sod wasn't distributed by apogee?...why not?...ask id...but, hell, that's past...both, apogee and id laugh at these times...so don't bother me for that dumb comment!!...sic!...

I can't remember which level - 15 or 16 - but there is a part where you are walking on radiation, you walk down a tunnel, get a radiation suit and carry on fighting. But, if you walk back down the tunnel and look on the map, you will see another tunnel that was not there before. Use idclip to walk through it and then there is a pentogram transporter; get on it and you are transported to an extra level that is over run with Nazi's in a Wolfenstein 3D typw game. Mmmmm.... killing jerries woth the BFG9000, FUN.

Umm... That's not really an easter egg, that's a level, see, when you kill all three Keens a little thing goes up and there's a lever to the next level.. But oh well.. =P

Ummm... Excuse me for this dumb question, but what games has Apogee made? I know ID made the Dooms, the Quakes, and comander Keen, but what has Apogee made?

Apogee had several games published...like Raptor - Call of the Shadows (An awesome game BTW.)

Apogee also released "Duke Nukem 3D" and "Shadow Warrior" under their other name, 3D Realms. If you're an idiot and don't believe that Apogee and 3DR are the same, the link for www.apogee1.com and www.3drealms.com go to the same site.

There are actually 2 wolfenstein levels. You get to the first (level 31) through a secret exit earlier on in the game, as described above. This is the very first level from wolf. If you get into the lift at the end, you are taken back to the main Doom game. However, there is a secret door in the last room before the lift (look at the map and type iddt if you can't find it), which takes you to the second wolf-style level. This is the one with the cyberdemon ond the 4 keens. Phew! -C2k

I dunno about the entire correctness, but you may remember that Apogee released a few 3D shooters based on iD's WOLF 3D engine (eg. Corridor 7). Supposedly Apogee conned them into selling the engine (or vice versa) and made there own games without them . There was plans for a 3D Commander Keen and a 3D Duke Nukem (based on Wolf Engine)Apogee advertised these in there catalogs that came with shareware releases. I'm not sure whether these games were ever released but at the same time iD released DOOM by themselves, with an engine that SHAT all over the WOLF engine. This maybe the reason for Commander Keen hanging himself in DOOM II (please don't quote me on this, it's mixed up rumors)

Apogee actually released what they called at first Wolfenstein 3D II. It's full name was Wolfenstein 3D II: Rise of The Triad (Just Rise of the Triad later on). It had a completely new engine made by Apogee. The Engine was revolution in the gaming industry at the time it had features like looking up and down,aiming,squatting,flying,etc.. The Duke Nukem 3D Engine borrowed a lot of the aspects of the ROTT (Rise of the Triad) Engine like looking up and down,flying,squatting,aiming,etc.. John Romero was actually invited in to analyze the programming. It was released at about the same time as DOOM that's the main reason why it failed even though the engine is/was superior to that of DOOM. If you want to get the Shareware version goto the Apogee/3DRelams website one warning though it has a rating of Wanton and Gratuitous Violence, but the good thing about the engine I forgot to mention(another revolution it made) it has a Violence-o-Meter with password protection optional.

Rise Of The Triad is an awesome game! I bought it out of the bargain bin at Target for around six bucks! If you explore the disk, there are a number of other shareware games, including Wolfenstein 3D. If anybody knows if the full version of ROTT is available, I'd love to hear.

Okay, Corridor 7 had nothing to do with Apogee. It was Capstone who ripped the buyers off. Also, something was mentioned about how Doom "SHAT" all over Wolf 3D. Truth be told, I think anyone would rather play Doom then Wolf 3D, but Doom was based on Wolf 3D's code and thus we owe Wolf 3D a toast.

One other thing, Rise of the Triad was in no way Wolfenstein 3d 2. It was developed only by Apogee, and you may have noticed that the bad guys weren't Nazis. Furthermore, Wolfenstein 3d 2 was either Spear of Desting or the new release titled Return to Castle Wolfenstein (made ID Software, the company that made the first Wolfenstein).

The actual way to go to this level is first going to level "Industrial zone" which is number 16 (or 15) and then jump off a building in about the middle of the level to a switch platform that rises from the lava and then go to the lava corridor that was already mentioned.

First off, Rise of the Triad was a modified version of the Wolfenstein 3D engine... Duke Nukem 3D was based on a completely different engine than the Wolfenstein engine. Id Software developed both Wolfenstein 3D and Doom, however they developed Wolf 3D when they were with Apogee, hence the reason they used it in Rise of the Triad.

Here is a message from John Romero answering the questions about Doom II. I emailed him asking him these questions, and at the bottom is my original letter. The ">" show that it is something I said in my letter that Mr. Romero is reffering to. All the Easter Eggs in the Doom II section of eeggs.com are answered here, including the one about Commander Keen. -----Original Message----- From: John Romero [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 5:53 PM To: 'David A. Horwitz' Subject: RE: Id/Apogee History Thanks for the email - lots of questions and here's the answers: > I recently pulled out my old shareware version of Blake Stone, which is > said to be made by Apogee, and Jam Entertainment. However, the on-disk catalogue said >that they sold Commander Keen and Wolfenstein, which I thought were Id Software games. >Previously, I had read postings on the hanging Commander Keens, in one of the secret >Doom II levels (I forget which). There were big arguments why; some said it was a >joke, like your head on a stick at the last level of Doom II, but others said things >like it was because of a rivalry, between Apogee and Id, since Apogee stole the >Commander Keen idea. Then, there were the people like me (though I never posted) who >thought that Apogee was Id's earlier name. I was wondering which theory is true. (To >find the postings I am talking about, go to www.eeggs.com, and navigate to Doom II, or >go to http://www.eeggs.com/items/1317.html, however, this link may change by the time >you get this). (1) Yes, Apogee Software was id Software's publisher long ago before DOOM was released. The games' are id's and Apogee was the company who sold the games. (2) The hanging Keens was Adrian's idea because he hated drawing the graphics for that series of games. ;) He likes GORE. (3) Apogee never "stole the Commander Keen idea" - it's always been id Software's property. Apogee was just a pubilsher of our games back then. Apogee has been owned by Scott Miller and George Broussard for many years. > Along with pulling out my shareware of Blake Stone, I took the two shareware >disks of Doom. I couldn't get them to work (I think disk 1 was broken, because I got >them to work once), but on the cover it said something about Mega Mouse Software. Who >is Mega Mouse Software, since on the back, it still says from Id Software. I also >noticed that both my Blake Stone and Doom shareware had something to do with SJT >Enterprises, but I couldn't figure out what that was either. (4) When we released our games as shareware, we allowed every company free distribution of the game. This meant that there were usually 4+ different boxes on the shelf, all with the same shareware version of our games. Mega Mouse must have been just one of the many, many companies that tried making money selling our shareware games. > One more thing is, is that it's well known someone at Id Software likes >NIN, since they do music and sound effects for a lot of your games, and because in >Doom's E4M1 the map includes 3 sectors making NIN's logo, and in Quake, the boxes of >nails having their logo. But who is the fan, and did NIN do the music/sound for Doom >and it's sequels (excluding Doom 3)? (5) American McGee and John Carmack liked NIN a lot and we had them do the music for Quake. The E4M1 NIN logo was American's idea. - John -----Original Message----- From: David A. Horwitz [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 3:39 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Id/Apogee History Dear Mr. Romero, I recently pulled out my old shareware version of Blake Stone, which is said to be made by Apogee, and Jam Entertainment. However, the on-disk catalogue said that they sold Commander Keen and Wolfenstein, which I thought were Id Software games. Previously, I had read postings on the hanging Commander Keens, in one of the secret Doom II levels (I forget which). There were big arguments why; some said it was a joke, like your head on a stick at the last level of Doom II, but others said things like it was because of a rivalry, between Apogee and Id, since Apogee stole the Commander Keen idea. Then, there were the people like me (though I never posted) who thought that Apogee was Id's earlier name. I was wondering which theory is true. (To find the postings I am talking about, go to www.eeggs.com, and navigate to Doom II, or go to http://www.eeggs.com/items/1317.html, however, this link may change by the time you get this). Along with pulling out my shareware of Blake Stone, I took the two shareware disks of Doom. I couldn't get them to work (I think disk 1 was broken, because I got them to work once), but on the cover it said something about Mega Mouse Software. Who is Mega Mouse Software, since on the back, it still says from Id Software. I also noticed that both my Blake Stone and Doom shareware had something to do with SJT Enterprises, but I couldn't figure out what that was either. One more thing is, is that it's well known someone at Id Software likes NIN, since they do music and sound effects for a lot of your games, and because in Doom's E4M1 the map includes three sectors making NIN's logo, and in Quake, the boxes of nails having their logo. But who is the fan, and did NIN do the music/sound for Doom and it's sequels (excluding Doom 3)? Finally, I would like to say I am a big fan of all your games, especially Doom and Deus Ex, and that I still play and edit Doom regularly, even though it is a little out of date. I like it because it is so simple, but so complex, not to mention the fact that it's nostalgic. I remember playing it at my cousin's house, when I was 4 or 5, and having no skills, what so ever. So, when I first played Doom II about a year ago, after not playing it for about 6 or 7 years, it was like everything rushed back to me. Thank you for taking the time to read my letter, and I hope I hear your reply soon. Sincerely, ************ PS: My name is different than the email address, because I'm using my dad's account. Also, would it be okay to post the contents of your reply? Thank you, again.

Ok, here are the facts. You can look these up online and they are real. -id Software is the famous game developer that created Doom AND Commander Keen -Commander Keen was id Software's first game -Apogee was a publisher, that published many games including games from other developers (note: developer creates the game publisher publishes it) such as Blake Stone and Duke Nukem I (not 3D but the original sidescroller). -id Software's technology was used in many other games since it was top-of-the-line at the time, so many old games published by Apogee credit id Software, even if the game was created by another developer. The easter egg with the hanging keens in map32 of Doom 2 was none other than a simple easter egg thrown into the game. It was not done out of spite; id Software owned Commander Keen and Doom II. There was a small breakup in between Keen and sometime during the Doom I production, when Tom Hall, the man behind many of Commander Keen's wacky ideas and the Dopefish, was let go, but even though it was tough for both sides, it wasn't particulary violent, and in fact, Tom later joined up again with Romero, another ex-id Software employee (a lot of the oldskool game programmers have worked with each other in various companies at least once in thier career it seems), and Keen was not created as a hateful voodoo doll towards any party. It was simple a joke. I suggest visiting Doomworld.com or another major Doom site, if you have any questions that are too specific for this easter egg. Or read Masters Of Doom, a biography of id Software, which explains how id came to be. Many of the questions here have been long answered in Doom-specific web-sites :D

In The Level 15/16 (Cant Remember Too Long Ago) You Run Off The Top Of A Castle And Land On A Platform With A Switch (Press It), Go Back In The Castle And Run Along The Lava Corridor And Turn Into The Hidden Passage. (Then Step Into The Portal). You Appear In The First Wolfenstein Level... At The End/Exit Room Turn Right And Press Space (Or Whatever), Keep Running Around Pressing Space (You Might Find The Blue Sphere... This Is To Make You Think Thats The Secret) Untill You Find The Secret Exit, This Will Take You To Level 32. (Kill Everything(Goto The Middle Of The Side Walls For More Secrets)) At The End You Find 3 Or 4 Keens Hanging... There!